11l-1 Friday: Debate Feedback and Cr#5 Scores

THB: Supplementary study guides, such as Cole’s Notes, are beneficial for students. 

Good debate, and interesting motion.  I personally think these study guides are fine, and I often use them myself.  However, like OPP said, they shouldn't be used as a primary source, and they do create this temptation.  So, while I agree with the motion I felt that the OPP had stronger arguments and executed them more effectively. Here is an article on this matter that I found interesting.  And equally interesting was stuff on Wikipedia on how these guides evolved and flourished.  First it was Cliff's Notes, and now the big player is Spark's Notes, which exist mostly on-line, begun by some Harvard students (sound familiar?).  Here is a brief history.

The controversy of these supplementary materials existing online is the ability of students to use smartphones to cheat during exams.  Gotta love technology. 

Here are the judge sheets from our two wonderful fantastic judges, Jiyoung and Changjung.

MOTION: THB: Supplementary study guides, such as Cole’s Notes, are beneficial for students.
Date:4/29/11		GOVERNMENT		OPPOSITION
Introduction	Pts	Celine		Rachel
Delivery	9.2 /10	Great stuff, but need more intonation, volume, energy. Got better during speech.	9.4 /10	Good flow. Good concise tone. Good Map.
Arguments	9.3 /10	I couldn’t figure out my many papers.  I was overwhelmed.  What did I do? I googled.  How did it turn out? Great? Not because I plagiarized. But because I could filter the ideas down to get the basics.  This is not harmful.  This is good.  If a student plagiarizes, that is his fault.  (Good intro). Define the motion – both online and offline materials.  Supplementary materials can provide ideas in line with teacher’s criteria. Arg 1:  Supp. Material takes care of teacher oversights.  Maybe the teacher thinks this stuff is too high level for the students, but these guides reveal extra insights.  A butterfly flies better with a slight breeze (NICE!)  Plagiarism is an issue IF we intend to publish, but we shouldn’t go overboard punishing students who are learning.  TIME: 4:11	9.4 /10	I have a confession to make.  Interesting intro.  I was busy – games, hockey, I had no time.  So I used Spark’s.  My scores were saved.  But – in the long term, my plan suffered because I didn’t know the REAL story.  It is not a good idea in the long term to take this route.  We have three arguments:  1: high risk of abuse.  2:  harms to student.  3. Harms to class. PM told us NOTHING.  She said sometimes notes are beneficial. Yes – true.  BUT if a teacher leaves something out, there must be a reason.  Core of this debate is harms and benefits.  The only benefit GOV has provided is to catch up in class.  We think teachers exist to teach the materials.  Why would we need these sources of notes?  There are other paths to take.  Ask your peers of teacher, or even READ the material.  Plagiarism – Brit Lit – Tweedie made it clear.  But we still see students borrowing from these guides.  It is tempting to use these sources – to copy and paste.  High risk of abuse – this is a problem.  Too easy.  These guides can be a supplement etc., and we are SUPPOSED to have a tough time in class. Short cuts are not part of the deal.  Details are missed in the notes and we SHOULD read the book.  (Too long and similar points rehashed) ARG 2:  Answers are too concrete in these books – one right answer doesn’t make us think beyond. (Too short – lopsided speech.)  TIME: 7:03
Notes	Tot 18.5 /20	Could have spoken longer, but good content.	Tot 18.8 /20	Great start, and good point.  First argument got repetitive. Second seemed undernourished both with time and content.  Sounded like argument was “notes provide inaccurate info” but turned out to be “just one answer.”  I think the first is a better way to go as Study Guides are often wrong.
Rebuttal One	Pts	Diane	Pts	Hyunuk
Delivery	9.4 /10	Good work.  Great tone.  Nice pace.  Easy to listen to.	9.2 /10	Pretty good volume and nice work. But some lapses in flow.  Otherwise, great stuff.  Hard to stay focused in this class at times, right?
Arguments	9.2 /10	Notes are beneficial – we need them to get the basic jist, especially when all other sources have failed to make clear.  “Supplementary” not “primary.”  Why not use these sources to clarify and strengthen? Rebuttal: You say they are tempting – does that make it wrong to use them?  It is not the books fault that this occurs.  Rebuttal: Too easy – can it be easy AND beneficial?  Why not use them?  (Need more meat in these rebuttals). Arg: Sometimes the teacher isn’t enough.  Sometimes you are limited.  Of course you will look for the best information (RACHEL POI – what is “supplementary”? PM didn’t define this) Reply – supplementary is helpful material that sheds light on the material.  Not the primary that actually contains the content.  These guides help.  For example – you learn an equation in chemistry.  You want to know variations of it.  So you Google it and you find them.  What’s wrong with googling? (WE aren’t debating Google).  Chances to plagiarize exist.  Not the guides fault.  The students fault. (Not sure this argument has much weight with the motion.) TIME: 6:21	9.4 /10	Summary – is spark’s really a supplement?  Maybe it is really a substitute! (Good) Even though the GOV says it is just a supplement, they’ve already confirmed the fact of the harms by not acknowledging.  Let’s see all this stuff we’ve talked about – real examples.  There is SO much work to do at school of course we will abuse these sources.  We say we will use it just as a supplement, but then it becomes a PRIMARY source and that is the danger. (DIANE POI – so it is Spark’s notes fault?) Reply – No.  We aren’t here to talk about that.  We are here to discuss the reality and harms.) (CELINE POI – UNCLEAR).  Second speaker said “we can expand” the ideas we find in the notes.  But the goal is not just to find the result, but to create it (EXCELLENT).  A student who is passionate will not use these notes.  ARG: These notes lower the quality of a class.  Creative ideas are not brought to discussions if we all use these notes.  For example – theme of Lord of the Flies – evil human mind?  Sure. Maybe.  Spark’s Notes package ideas and this lowers class diversity.  Our school motto tells us these notes are bad.  (GOOD stuff). TIME: 6:48
Notes	Tot 18.6 /20		Tot 18.6 /20
Rebuttal Two	Pts	Youngsoo	Pts	Changhoon
Delivery	9.3 /10	Nice intro. Good body language and voice. Lost some consistency towards end.	9.2 /10	Good voice and intonation.   Holds attention.  Some flow issues, but understandable as class eneded.
Arguments	9.2 /10	Clashes had one thing in common – originality.  Burden of proof is to prove more harm than good.  We win because the positives outweigh.  Before we move on – let’s summarize our side.  Gov mentions “abuse risk.”  Tempting shortcuts.  So, should we ban these notes because of a few bad apples who plagiarize and abuse these?  MOST students don’t do this.  OR, do you have proof or stats?  (RACHEL – POI – Stats? Ban? We never said any of this. GOOD)  Reply – okay, we never said you did (Kinda sounded like you did).  But harms do not outweigh.  Teachers are not complaining about originality.  They are complaining about abuse.  Define “supplementary” – a tutor is the same thing.  All info gathered is the same thing (Qualifying info – nice tactic.  But could be clearer).  These sources merely assist.  These guides back up, and allow us to expand our ideas.  It is impossible to be unoriginal if you have a brain (Sounds like you’re saying this – but not sure.) TIME: 6:30	9.2 /10	Supplements are good at times, but the harms exist and we need to weigh them.  Let’s look at the GOVs thoughts.  To enhance information – to add information.  Sure.  But we are asking if these can overwhelm the real sources of the information?  We think so.  Instead of reading the book, we read the notes.  It is too easy.  We can’t get smarter this way. We are accepting one black or white view dumbed down for people who don’t want to do the work.   They give you the easy basic answer.  They are designed to be too clear and basic.  Yeah – think about it!  They are cheat sheets for English classes! How can you go to college with this habit?
Notes	Tot 18.6 /20	Sometimes points get muddles.  Maybe less detail is more.  Try to frame at least one aspect of your argument to be crystal clear.	Tot 18.4 /20

Good CR's from many of you, but a bit late from most of you.  Keep in mind that you should respond to the prompt (that means actually watching the video/reading the article - not using "study guides" :) before launching into your own opinions.  We seem to be dog paddling with these CR's lately so I'd like to see more wow-factor next time (see Hyun Uk's).

Class 11L1	CR#5	Debate#5
Hendrix	9.1/10	9.3/10
Lennon	9.4/10	9.2/10
Page	9.4/10	*9.3/10
Presley	9.7/10	9.3/10
Dylan	9.2/10	9.3/10
Clapton	9.2/10	9.4/10
McCartney	9.2/10	*9.4/10
Young	9.6/10	9.2/10