Debate: THB: Student council members should be dismissed if their penalty points exceed 25.

THB: Student council members should be dismissed if their penalty points exceed 25.
Date: May 22nd		GOVERNMENT		OPPOSITION
Introduction	Pts	Inseong		Hweegu
Delivery	9.2 /10	Pretty excellent for the most part. Smooth and organized.  Some more emotion would be your next improvement.  But all in all, great steps forward to being a very good debater. Try to be more creative with the intro.	9.0 /10	Decent listing and sign posting.  But more confidence and intonation needed, and more time needed. Tell a story or set the table more to make your speech more creative.  Add some fluctuation to your speech so it doesn't sound like reading.
Arguments	9.2 /10	Preamble: Factual case of April 17th - Hongsoon.  Petition etc., "we feel sorry" BUT we stand for the motion for three reasons.  Define "dismissed" as losing all duty and obligation. 1 - Excessive points shows student can't manage school life.  The average of the student body was 10 points last year.  So, it isn't hard to keep this number.  More than 25 shows irresponsibility.  Leadership needs regulation.  A leader needs to represent the school essence.   2 - All students have duties to be responsible.  This is why students are punished.  Rules are stricter for student council members.  This is what they are responsible for and what they agree to. Food violations and computer violations are what make a large penalty points - curfew etc.  This means that the student was not a good example for students to follow.  Therefore it is right to dismiss. TIME: 5:02	9.0 /10	Studnets should NOT be dismissed.  Good map.   1-Pentalty points are not a measure.  Student council members dedicate themselves to working hard, and penalty points don't show this.   Students can lead a good school life and the penalty points don't show this.  As long as the student is working hard, there is no reason to dismiss him even with the penalty points. 2- The amount of 25 is too low.  5 points for these violations is easy to accumulate. We all make mistakes.  Curfew violation is a fact of life in the boys dorm.  Sometimes we get these points from the acts of others, not ourselves.  We believe 40 to 50 is more reasonable.   Good summary.   Time: 4:01
Notes	Tot 18.4 /20		Tot 18.0 /20
Rebuttal One	Pts	Joowon	Pts	Youngwook
Delivery	9.1 /10	Good rebuttals and emphasis on the stats.  Third argument seems a bit muddled and too related to the rest of the stuff.  More creativity needed.  A bit more flavor needed in tone and flow.	9.1 /10	Good as usual, Some good personal appeal.  But you kind of undermine Hweegu's arguments about points being too low.  Kind of defeatist and a "no no."  Good last argument but need more summary.
Arguments	9.1 /10	Rebuttal 1 - What is student council? LOP says penalty points do not show ability to manage school affairs.  BUT we point out that the position requires obedience to school rules - student should be a MODEL student.  Grades etc. should stand as an example.   LOP emphasizes just the one point, so it isn't a complete argument. Rebuttal 2 - 25 is NOT low.  Average for a student is less than half of that.  (GOOD stat).   Logical fallacy - eating chicken and computer etc. - big points and quickly accumulated.  BUT these are BIG crimes at KMLA.  Not what student council members should do. Argument 3 - Many rules school students must obey, and student council SHOULD be in harmony with the rules.  We assume student council members are model students.  Firing them hurts student council.  The school has the responsibility to make sure these members follow the rules and get along with the school.   TIME: 5:10	9.0 /10	Rebuttals - The claim 25 points is not low.  Student council memebers should be models.  I agree (?) but these points don't measure student life accurately. (Didn't you just compromise Hweegu's argument?) Boys dorm parent is more sensitive and less fair.  Story of roommate excused for computer violation.  Inconsistent.  Luck or unluck.  Boys lose in this way. POI - Joowon - Does that mean students get points for no reason?  REPLY - sometimes. Depends on his mood.  (Better - then ALL students share this luck or unluck.  Other male members on student council don't have this problem.) Personal experience - penalty points and school work are unrelated.  Studnet council work is not related. Argument 3 - Penalty point system can't BE the only measurement or consideration.   We need other considerations - Not the soul standard.  Students are allowed to run, and teachers wanted to give Hongsoon another chance.  BUT the rule was automatic.  So this shows the weakness of the standard. TIME: 5:42
Notes	Tot 18.2 /20		Tot 18.1 /20
Conclusion	Pts	Celine	Pts	Ryan
Delivery	9.1 /10	Very good content but a bit short. Have more fun.  You were on the right track and I like the logic and points raised.	9.0 /10
Arguments	9.2 /10	Two major clashes: It is reasonable to dismiss because: Is the amount appropriate? We believe so.  The average points show the math.  Even lower they are this semester - down to three.  Hongsoon is out of control.  :)   Model students should represent the school ethos.   Second clash - Rules are rules.  OPP says a meeting should be held.  Judgements are unfair.  Once a student crosses a line we think the line should be regarded.  It only took two months for HS to get these points, and it shows he needs time to manage his school life without being a member of student council.  ARE these students joining the council for the right reasons?  Maybe not.  Maybe it is for popularity.  Maybe for other things.  For the students own good, they should be dismissed.   The Gov believes this for this reason. TIME: 4:22	8.9 /10	Two issues - not clashes.  Our team didn't go good (???). Penalty points - are they an indicator Members - assuming responsibilty - suitable punishment or not. Main issue - are the points a good measure of ability to manage affairs.  OUR team actually has a first hand witness who WAS  a member of student council.  He says it isn't accurate.   Hongsoon was a hard working member, and many people stuck up for him.  You can do the work and do your own work with or without the points. They are unrelated.   Average points - ten points.  Students have a lot to do.  We forget stuff.  It's not a measure of being lazy etc., it just shows their passion and hard work that results in this stuff.   issue 2 - Members should be responsible.  Extra points are punishment enough.  Eating chicken and computer games ARE not serious crimes.  Council members eating chicken - so what.  (BUT this is KMLA). Students stuck up for HS, But the school made the decision, not the students.  This should not stand.  Student council is for students.  There should have been a vote. Time: 5:40
Notes	Tot 18.3 /20		Tot 17.9 /20